Something I've been wanting to know about Kemco

[Schnuff]

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[ChromaRaine]

First of all, this sounds like your typical discussion on a sh*tposting group.
Well, anyway.

All those developers working with KEMCO as their publishers are real companies and indie devs, some are even Ltd. EXE-CREATE, for instance, is a Ltd. company that's been on KEMCO's radar since 2004.

If it ain't broke, why fix it? There is nothing wrong reusing assets and stuff, it's not a big deal. it actually help them better to work onother things during development and production. Yeah. It's kinda frustrated, I understand that, but this is the lately common on modern games devs lately. There's nothing new on it.

There's also nothing wrong with the name of this site that the creator of this site has made for, this was created by a uncle-nephew duo who likes and enjoy playing  KEMCO games. To discuss topics related to it or those who need help. KEMCO games used to be much more hardcore before.

"I played real RPG’s before" is more of a hardcore purist would say as excuse to trash some Indie RPG devs just because they played old "real" RPG so they can use that to justified their opinions. I'd say SMT and Persona are just literally straight walking simulator 'cause that's literally you do. 

[Schnuff]

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[jesusalva]

Full explanation, read first if you have timeFull explanation, read first if you have time

A real RPG is a game where you can forget yourself and reality, and play a role instead. (in other words, a "Role Playing Game"). By this criteria, some visual novels are more RPGs than some games branded as such. If you're using a different criteria, that's fine ─ each one to their own. But rather than insisting on the subjectivity of the matter, I'll mention one of the criteria I don't use and doesn't meet the literal definition either ─ "must have an inventory and equipment system".

In the end of the day, what defines a genre is similarities and common things on the games which belong to it. So the aforementioned criteria can qualify a genre, and you can call it RPG if you want.

Similaries, however, also define more than just genres. Games from same developers, from same franchise, games from the same or similar engine, so on and so forth. For example, "RPG Maker Games" and "Final Fantasy franchise". You can classify a franchise as a genre, because the criteria is basically the same ─ and yes, some people do believe in "Final Fantasy-esque" as a game genre. Well, some people also say Kemco RPGs could be a genre of its own.

 

So yes, there'll be similarities. And naturally, people have different thresholds or criteria to what counts as a similarity and what counts as copy-pasta. Strictly speaking, similarity is anything which when removed you'll miss, and copy-pasta is anything which you won't.

All Kemco games follow roughly the same clichés and the same progression style. They have a somewhat similar art direction (pixelart mostly, sometimes anime~ish portraits, and bright color palettes; not necessarily 2D), and the same overarching concept (e.g. tile-based maps, turn based combat, so on). Does this makes all of them more of the same, or does this makes them their own franchise/genre/developer/publisher? Every one has their own opinion on this matter, but most people around here (if not everyone) will say these factors are just the necessary qualifications to be a Kemco RPG. Needless to say, even if the escape games series is published by Kemco, for most people around here they could have been published by anyone else: they do not have these qualifications.

 

So most users and players around here are not bothered by the same art style, same combat premises, same clichés and same story progression. In fact, if Kemco suddenly changed and made a game without clichés (eg. with characters whom don't fall in any), without turn based combat (or even with farming, like Stardew Valley), in a different art style (e.g. photorealism), with an open world without a main story to guide you and drive events forth, etc ─ then people around here wouldn't qualify it as a Kemco RPG. Several wouldn't play it either, just like they don't play the Escape games.

Because as I said, they'll be missed if they're missing. I assume you, however, wouldn't miss them ─ you would just take it in a stride. Some do, indeed. That's fine. But that's my point.

 

[QUOTE]Each one of them looks like they used the same kit for their games over and over again. With very little differences…[/QUOTE]

Most players around here expect the things you consider "same kit", and the little differences are where they expect to be surprised. For example, buddy system present in some of Exe-Create games ─ that's an expected surprise. It's the sort of difference which players around here are looking for, even if for you that's very minor. However, if they simply changed the turn based combat and made, for example, a QTE (is that the term?) then I myself wouldn't play it anymore. That's an unexpected surprise. You might consider it something more innovative (although definitely not original), but for many others, this would be a breach of expectations.

 

And that's the answer you're looking for. Kemco is already established. They can't afford to breach the expectations. They do experiment sometimes, every company does when they have spare budget. Stagnation is death, after all. Being a publisher, they invited Rideon, for example, which is considerably different from Exe-Create and Hit-Point games yet similar enough to Kemco themes in general, in an attempt to increase their reach. Thus far, most players I know also liked Rideon games. But if they breach the expectations they might fail to sell to their established base, and if it doesn't attract enough external interest, then the investment will end up being wasted. For a small company like Kemco, this could as well spell their end: They don't have the financial solidity to experiment too freely.

As for your other question: Even established companies, when seeking to release things different from their usual, often adopt different names. This way, they don't inherit any reputation which would only hinder them. But no, this is not the case here, these companies are really different companies with different staff, not just the same people trying to diversify their games to hopefully increase reach.

 

TL;DR what you consider "more of the same" is what the fanbase expects Kemco to do, and the differences you're looking for are things which the fanbase doesn't expect Kemco to do, or expect Kemco to not do. Kemco could try that all the same with same people but a different name, but that's not the reason why they have different development companies under them.

[jesusalva]

⚠
On a more serious note, and this is why it's warranting its own post: You're free to have your own opinion over stuff and to expose it here. You're also free to discuss the differences between opinions in a civil manner, to further your own understanding over other people's opinions and to allow others to gain more insight and clarity over your own, even if you both will never agree with each other.

So you're free to say Kemco games aren't RPGs and justify, and you're also free to disagree with others and explain why you disagree in a civil manner.

However, if it stops being civil, or if it serves no purpose but cause animosity, then I'll have to park (soft-delete) the whole thread. As Chroma said, "this [website] was created by a uncle-nephew duo who likes and enjoy playing  KEMCO games. To discuss topics related to it or those who need help."

This is Kemco Chat so the discussion is still somewhat topical and admissible, but please be careful to not veer too far off into off-topic or trolling.

[Victar]

There are plenty of raging debates about whether various popular game series should evolve and try new things instead of recycling the same old game mechanics. There are raging debates about whether Pokemon, Dragon Quest, or even Persona need to evolve. I've heard the recently released Persona 3 Reload criticized as "nothing but Persona 3 with a Persona 5 skin". (I have no opinion on this take.)

There are also raging debates about whether various popular game series evolve too much, or evolve in the wrong direction. The Paper Mario series, a beloved favorite of mine, has been the centerpiece of fierce arguments about where the series has gone. (My GameFAQs review of Paper Mario Sticker Star has been criticized for being "too positive". I can't begrudge the critic their opinion; reviews deserve to be criticized just as much as the games being reviewed.)

My viewpoint is: life is too short to worry about it. Just read the reviews and maybe try free demos when deciding what game will suit your personal tastes. In addition to mainstream reviews and Metacritic, there are a lot of fan reviews on GameFAQs, on Steam, and on fansites like this one.

If a big game company or series is going in a direction you don't like, then look for other games that are what you like, and support those games. If an indie game does something innovative, pleasing, or just really fun, shout it out with a review of your own! Indie developers need all the help they can get in a competitive market that all too often rewards the "safe" choices.

I'll give a quick shoutout to Bug Fables, one of the best indie RPGs I've played in recent years. Its gameplay style resembles Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door with a lot of optional challenges, and its story is exceptionally good.

[ChromaRaine]

[quote=45240]

First of: there are good Indie RPG’s around. Even those Indie Devs evolve their games and only a few try to sell us the same game x-times.

So please tell me how the devs for Kemco spent their saved resources to improve their games. Come on even if you are a die hard fan you must admit that their games are interchangeable.

Maybe I am a little biased …yes I played real RPG’s no wonder

Still I spent a few hundred € on Kemco games (mostly to warn or encourage into buying the game) only a very very few of them are worth their money.

[/quote]

Sorry, but I'm already aware of it, and how some Indies take their games to another level, which is awesome and something I'm grateful for, but those "others" usually have a budget already with Kickstarter or stuff. KEMCO and Co., however, usually don't have any budget at all, yet they have to meet the budget. I'm sure you'll get it. There is also a factor regarding cultural differences; in fact, their main target audiences are Japanese people in the first place. They like these types of stories, and turn-based battles are very popular in the country. We're pretty much irrelevant until some of the English-speaking audiences want to play their games and some of their early English releases garner an audience for them.

If not for the Japanese audience, we would never get those 3D games with animated cutscenes in the first place. They are the reason we ever get their games into the English market or the follow-up entries.

 

Let's put this from the developer perspective (EXE-CREATE staff):

Naturally, I can't tell you the specific know-how (of course), but we're simply making something new and assembling it as a game as much as possible in the time we managed to secure, while also making use of data and tools (assets) we've created in the past.

We cannot create games with tons of unique graphics, high-quality and rich effects, and detailed and in-depth storylines, scenarios, and systems. Creating these would require more time, manpower, and budget than we currently have. Rather than focusing on these things, we have chosen to deliver a lot of work to all of you in a short span of time.

 

And this changed my perspective after learning this, and I admit and am not denying the fact that their games are similar, but I just don't care sometimes. In fact, I was a bit biased toward their older games a long time ago until I played them, and I actually find them good. Just like some of their old entries, like Journey to Kreisia and Alphadia, However, still, we as individuals have our own preferences and stuff. Besides, @jesusalva explained it thoroughly and in detail to you.

[ChromaRaine]

TL:DR ignorance is a bliss