I don't know if this would ever pan out. It is a ton of work for one person...but I was thinking a chart of the games might be helpful for people looking for a Kemco game to play. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
What do you all think? Pointless effort? If not, maybe others could contribute to get a chart filled out? Positive or negative, all feedback welcome! :cheer:
Proposal of Kemco games summary chart?
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MSG Commander
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Searinox119
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Is it really worth the effort, though?
We're talking about Kemco games. They aren't a shining example of originality and tend to reuse stuff. Chances are, a large portion of the chart is going to be filled with similar or exact same answers for most games, which wouldn't make it very helpful.
Now, sure, there are things like battle system and story that tend to change between games... but how do you put that in a chart? Just putting hueg infodumps into relevant sections is not a really good solution, but without that, you'd be choosing games based on, uh, the presence of the pre-boss heals? The information problem can already be seen, by the way, just by looking at the Post-Game Content section. I mean, okay, it's guessable what the Secret Arena is, I guess, but things like Gazillion Challenge? How are you supposed to know what that is without looking at the relevant sections of the guide? Or with other things like difficulties or in-app purchases - some games are harder than the others on any difficulty, some have very useful in-app purchases while others don't sell anything of a great value, etc.
In other words, to get comprehensive information on whether or not they should play the game, people would still have to go through the reviews. And if so, what's the point of the chart?
We're talking about Kemco games. They aren't a shining example of originality and tend to reuse stuff. Chances are, a large portion of the chart is going to be filled with similar or exact same answers for most games, which wouldn't make it very helpful.
Now, sure, there are things like battle system and story that tend to change between games... but how do you put that in a chart? Just putting hueg infodumps into relevant sections is not a really good solution, but without that, you'd be choosing games based on, uh, the presence of the pre-boss heals? The information problem can already be seen, by the way, just by looking at the Post-Game Content section. I mean, okay, it's guessable what the Secret Arena is, I guess, but things like Gazillion Challenge? How are you supposed to know what that is without looking at the relevant sections of the guide? Or with other things like difficulties or in-app purchases - some games are harder than the others on any difficulty, some have very useful in-app purchases while others don't sell anything of a great value, etc.
In other words, to get comprehensive information on whether or not they should play the game, people would still have to go through the reviews. And if so, what's the point of the chart?
In a way I agree with a lot of what Searinox119 says. I think you get a better flavor of a game by browsing the posts and reading reviews. Yes, if the summary stuff were minimal work to do, it can't hurt, but I do think the brief summary doesn't really convey answers to the kinds of considerations Searinox119 mentions.
Who is the audience for the summary? Surely not the hardcore player. So is it for the casual player with almost no background in Kemco games? I think such a player might be confused or unenlightened by the brief info in the summary, and anyway, I believe that a game review on this site would be much more informative for such a player. I'd rather see time and energy expended on game reviews.
Who is the audience for the summary? Surely not the hardcore player. So is it for the casual player with almost no background in Kemco games? I think such a player might be confused or unenlightened by the brief info in the summary, and anyway, I believe that a game review on this site would be much more informative for such a player. I'd rather see time and energy expended on game reviews.
Older, but not wiser
While I can definitely understand the negatives, I also can see a lot of positives for players who are more new to Kemco stuff or at least wanting to see which games more or less fit what they're looking for. A few thoughts.
1. One of the biggest potential downfalls will be that "go for brevity and risk having things under-explained or explain stuff and have this thing be really bulky" thing mentioned with post-game content. Like, I'm playing Rusted Emeth now and my response to pre-boss heals would be "Uh, kind of...in a way...maybe?" Since dungeons tend to have a station where you can recharge your golems' armor and IP points, but you can't restore your actual health and they aren't necessarily located next to bosses. If anything, they're a way to easily get your golems back if you have to dismount to go through cramped corridors, since you can summon them back to base and then recall them to your location. And a lot of bosses are bounties and, therefore, can be expected to be found randomly, as well.
2. But there is a lot of useful info that can be passed on to players. Does the game require an additional download? Is there IAP and of what sort (just items or the annoying "items, characters, dungeons, you name it" stuff). Does the game give you a way to farm IAP so you don't have to buy it? Post-game content could be simplified a bit to not specifically name every single thing, but to let people know simply that you can do more stuff, whether the game has multiple endings, you can access more content and a different ending through (re: Alph Genesis) sparing the final boss and/or whether extra content such as Arenas, etc. are accessible.
1. One of the biggest potential downfalls will be that "go for brevity and risk having things under-explained or explain stuff and have this thing be really bulky" thing mentioned with post-game content. Like, I'm playing Rusted Emeth now and my response to pre-boss heals would be "Uh, kind of...in a way...maybe?" Since dungeons tend to have a station where you can recharge your golems' armor and IP points, but you can't restore your actual health and they aren't necessarily located next to bosses. If anything, they're a way to easily get your golems back if you have to dismount to go through cramped corridors, since you can summon them back to base and then recall them to your location. And a lot of bosses are bounties and, therefore, can be expected to be found randomly, as well.
2. But there is a lot of useful info that can be passed on to players. Does the game require an additional download? Is there IAP and of what sort (just items or the annoying "items, characters, dungeons, you name it" stuff). Does the game give you a way to farm IAP so you don't have to buy it? Post-game content could be simplified a bit to not specifically name every single thing, but to let people know simply that you can do more stuff, whether the game has multiple endings, you can access more content and a different ending through (re: Alph Genesis) sparing the final boss and/or whether extra content such as Arenas, etc. are accessible.
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MSG Commander
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Sounds like good arguments, both for and against.
From my perspective, the hardest part would be displaying a table or chart that size properly - especially for phones and tablets.
I have often thought that it would be nice to at least have some sort of list breaking down games by developer, # of hours to "true" end, whether the game has a mini map or different difficulty settings, etc.
I think there's merit to discussing this idea further, though I for one have no idea of what the end result would actually look like.
From my perspective, the hardest part would be displaying a table or chart that size properly - especially for phones and tablets.
I have often thought that it would be nice to at least have some sort of list breaking down games by developer, # of hours to "true" end, whether the game has a mini map or different difficulty settings, etc.
I think there's merit to discussing this idea further, though I for one have no idea of what the end result would actually look like.
All your base are
The columns, or info dumps, were just spur-of-the moment things as an example. The whole thing started as a list for my personal benefit. I especially wanted to keep track of the developers and release dates, and yes, when I'm looking for a game to replay to kill time till the next release, I look for things like pre-boss heal points and maps...but that's just me. I totally expected what I prefer to be extraneous info. I like lists not walls of text...what can I say? 
The only part of the chart that is completed is the Name, Developer, Release Date (based on KEMCO press releases). What info is included or excluded is up to the boss, MSG Commander. Or we can just skip the whole thing. B)
The only part of the chart that is completed is the Name, Developer, Release Date (based on KEMCO press releases). What info is included or excluded is up to the boss, MSG Commander. Or we can just skip the whole thing. B)
[center][i]Be silly. Be honest. Be kind.[/i][/center]
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MSG Commander
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Name, developer and release date is definitely a good place to start. (Though release date may not be as important; I honestly don't have a strong opinion on that, one way or the other. It can be nice to have but I don't know if people think it's "essential information," so you guys'll have to weigh on in that one!)
For the other columns - here's my two cents:
- Mini Map (since already, we know of one person who's bummed about no map in Asdivine Hearts. Also, we may want to call it "dungeon map" or some such, for people who are really new to the games. I'm flexible on that though.)
- Battle shortcut
- Multiple difficulty settings (Though perhaps we could label it "Change Difficulty" and just type yes or no, or something like that?)
- Multiple endings
- IAP (And can you earn enough points to buy stuff, or do you need to spend $)
- Bonus Content (None, a little, or a lot?)
- Maybe some sort of note, to indicate certain games that are related, or part of a series? (So people know to play Asdivine Dios before Asdivine Menace, that kind of thing...)
That's my opinion - but not a "final decision." I'd rather that 3beez and other interested people weigh in on what info would be the most helpful. My only prerogative will be to figure out how many columns we can display well on tablets and phones, and I won't know that until we have a finished table...
One thing I would propose is creating separate tables for each Developer, and putting each one in a "slider" type thingy, like we did for the Asdivine Magic Unisons:
https://rpginsanity.com/asdivine-menace ... ic-unisons
Label one slider "Exe Create," one "World Wide Software," and so on. Then you just have to click on the Developer name, and there's a table of all their games.
(And, it makes it so we don't need a "Developer" column in the table, which frees up valuable space for one of the other subjects. And using the sliders will make that particular page extremely easy to navigate on mobile devices.)
So if somebody wants to know, "Who made Alphadia, and what other games are from the same developer?", along with a few other small details, well, this list will have them covered. If they want to know more about what the game is like, they can (and should) look up reviews for the game, or browse the walkthrough and/or forum topics.
So I guess that's a bit more than just "two cents." But, anyway, I do think it's worth doing; but I don't think we should rush right into it. I'd say give at least a week for other people to weigh in.
For the other columns - here's my two cents:
- Mini Map (since already, we know of one person who's bummed about no map in Asdivine Hearts. Also, we may want to call it "dungeon map" or some such, for people who are really new to the games. I'm flexible on that though.)
- Battle shortcut
- Multiple difficulty settings (Though perhaps we could label it "Change Difficulty" and just type yes or no, or something like that?)
- Multiple endings
- IAP (And can you earn enough points to buy stuff, or do you need to spend $)
- Bonus Content (None, a little, or a lot?)
- Maybe some sort of note, to indicate certain games that are related, or part of a series? (So people know to play Asdivine Dios before Asdivine Menace, that kind of thing...)
That's my opinion - but not a "final decision." I'd rather that 3beez and other interested people weigh in on what info would be the most helpful. My only prerogative will be to figure out how many columns we can display well on tablets and phones, and I won't know that until we have a finished table...
One thing I would propose is creating separate tables for each Developer, and putting each one in a "slider" type thingy, like we did for the Asdivine Magic Unisons:
https://rpginsanity.com/asdivine-menace ... ic-unisons
Label one slider "Exe Create," one "World Wide Software," and so on. Then you just have to click on the Developer name, and there's a table of all their games.
(And, it makes it so we don't need a "Developer" column in the table, which frees up valuable space for one of the other subjects. And using the sliders will make that particular page extremely easy to navigate on mobile devices.)
So if somebody wants to know, "Who made Alphadia, and what other games are from the same developer?", along with a few other small details, well, this list will have them covered. If they want to know more about what the game is like, they can (and should) look up reviews for the game, or browse the walkthrough and/or forum topics.
So I guess that's a bit more than just "two cents."
But, anyway, I do think it's worth doing; but I don't think we should rush right into it. I'd say give at least a week for other people to weigh in.All your base are
[quote="MSG Commander" post=3678]Sounds like good arguments, both for and against.
From my perspective, the hardest part would be displaying a table or chart that size properly - especially for phones and tablets.
I have often thought that it would be nice to at least have some sort of list breaking down games by developer, # of hours to "true" end, whether the game has a mini map or different difficulty settings, etc.
I think there's merit to discussing this idea further, though I for one have no idea of what the end result would actually look like.[/quote]
# of hours was something I was considering, at least in vague terminology. It's kind of hard to implement as different people play at different paces, but I think it would be fairly easy to give people a general idea of a game's length. Possibly by giving a general determination of how long the average Kemco game is (15-20 hours?) and mentioning if it's average length, shorter than average (many World Wide Software games) or longer than average (Alphadia Genesis, for one).
Adding in things like reaching the "true" end, for games where that entails post-game content, could make it trickier. Like, if you take Alphadia Genesis for example, the post-game final boss is just brutal compared to the normal ending final boss. I was on the easier difficulty level where beating the final boss was easy, as long as I paid attention to health. The post-game boss had half my party dead with its first attack and things just went downhill from there. To get up to a level where you can realistically win that fight, a person could do the secret arena, beat the ultimate-weapon-guarding bosses and grind in her dungeon. Or spend an hour or two on the island with the metal gels, using the critical hit band (or bands) to ensure you kill them regularly (while hoping against hope that the Arch Dragon super-boss doesn't show up instead!). Depending on tactics, I'd guess the time to accomplish the true end could vary wildly.
From my perspective, the hardest part would be displaying a table or chart that size properly - especially for phones and tablets.
I have often thought that it would be nice to at least have some sort of list breaking down games by developer, # of hours to "true" end, whether the game has a mini map or different difficulty settings, etc.
I think there's merit to discussing this idea further, though I for one have no idea of what the end result would actually look like.[/quote]
# of hours was something I was considering, at least in vague terminology. It's kind of hard to implement as different people play at different paces, but I think it would be fairly easy to give people a general idea of a game's length. Possibly by giving a general determination of how long the average Kemco game is (15-20 hours?) and mentioning if it's average length, shorter than average (many World Wide Software games) or longer than average (Alphadia Genesis, for one).
Adding in things like reaching the "true" end, for games where that entails post-game content, could make it trickier. Like, if you take Alphadia Genesis for example, the post-game final boss is just brutal compared to the normal ending final boss. I was on the easier difficulty level where beating the final boss was easy, as long as I paid attention to health. The post-game boss had half my party dead with its first attack and things just went downhill from there. To get up to a level where you can realistically win that fight, a person could do the secret arena, beat the ultimate-weapon-guarding bosses and grind in her dungeon. Or spend an hour or two on the island with the metal gels, using the critical hit band (or bands) to ensure you kill them regularly (while hoping against hope that the Arch Dragon super-boss doesn't show up instead!). Depending on tactics, I'd guess the time to accomplish the true end could vary wildly.